Notes of meeting on 20mph consultation – February 2017

Thanks to everyone who attended our meeting in central Croydon on Monday 6 February, 2017.


Notices and notes of meeting

The notices of meeting were posted up after the meeting.  Find them here.


The discussions in the meeting were devoted to the current consultation on 20mph.

The notes of meeting were agreed with those attending before posting.

You can access them here: notes-of-meeting-06_02_2017-final

Please note that Cllr King has provided links to evidence that comments in support of the scheme can and will be taken into consideration and these are included in the notes.

screen-shot-2017-02-12-at-18-12-58The questions offered prior to the meeting received a response from Waheed Alam on behalf of the Council, and you can find them here.  This also provides links to the consultation and information, including the Council’s FAQs.

Please do let Cllr Bashford and/or your local councillor know if you have not yet received the consultation document, as per the request in the meeting.


As with all our meetings, if you have any feedback on this meeting or our activities we’d welcome hearing from you.


Next public meeting

The next meetings are being planned. See notes of meeting for details.

The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday 14 March 2017, which will either be a general meeting where any subject can be discussed and any notice given or it will be a meeting on crowdfunding. Please let us know asap if a meeting on crowdfunding would be of interest to you.

Please watch our website for details of this and future meetings, and book a free place via Eventbrite at 

You can email us at

We’d appreciate it if you would help spread the word about our meetings.

Find us on Twitter @CroydonNbrhoods
Find us on Facebook

Q&As regarding 20mph and the consultation in Croydon

20mph has been introduced on the majority of Croydon roads in areas 1 and 2. The Council are now consulting on areas 3, 4 and 5. For full details, see the Council’s website. See also the council’s FAQs.
The following questions were submitted in the run up to our meeting on 20mph.  Thanks to council officer Waheed Alam who provided the responses:
 A copy of these can be downloaded at the foot of the post.

Questions offered prior to the CCC meeting on 6 February, with responses

1) How will 20mph be enforced, especially in small side roads which folk may use as a ‘rat run’?

The Metropolitan Police enforce speed limits in London and they have been clear in their position that their enforcement efforts for a 20mph speed limit will be at the same level as that used to enforce the existing 30mph or any other speed limit in the borough.

Croydon council will also collect current speed information on a number of roads in the area before any change is made. If the new speed limit is implemented, the council will repeat these speed surveys at the same locations to see what effect the new speed limit has had on speed. Where speeds continue to be high, the police will be informed so that they can look to carry out targeted enforcement.

The council may look to introduce physical speed-reducing measures at key locations where speeding is persistent but that will be subject to consultation at the time.

2) Why not have 20mph limit across Farthing Down where people often speed? This would add extra safety for the cattle, when they are there, and generally enhance the environment of the area.

In order to have a lower speed limit along Ditches Lane the council will need consent from the Corporation of London (the landowners) regarding the possibility of erecting signage along Ditches Lane and also English Nature because this is a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI). This will require careful consideration as the land is used for cattle grazing and the placement of upright signs and road markings and may be looked at later as a separate scheme.

3) If the majority of road traffic accidents occur on main roads why not prioritise these for speed reduction first rather than the roads proposed, where there are fewer or no road traffic accidents?

Understandably and without doubt, it is agreed that more road accidents occur on main roads as a result of a lot more interaction between the various modes of traffic. The question appears to assume that the council does not prioritise accident prevention on main roads over the residential/side roads.

The council has had and continues to have accident remedial programmes to tackle road accidents on main roads. Main roads have considerably greater road space and good sightlines compared to residential streets, thereby allowing for more innovative and expensive measures to be put in place. Costly measures such as controlled pedestrian crossings or footway buildouts, enforcement cameras, signalised junctions etc. are more justified on main roads where usage is likely to justify the costs.

A 30mph speed limit is generally considered appropriate for the main road network which is generally wider and has the necessary infrastructure/capacity to support the higher speed limit, whilst residential roads have many physical constraints which makes 20mph more suited for those roads.

Maintaining a higher maximum speed limit on the main road network is desirable for a number of reasons amongst which one is so as to encourage drivers not to rat run through residential roads.

Under the Traffic Management Act the council has obligations to cater for all road users which includes both motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. This is key to understanding why the approach adopted by Croydon’s 20mph speed limit has been to maintain higher speed limits on main roads.

The Traffic Management Act 2004 contains various requirements on how a Highway Authority should manage their road networks. The act places a duty on an Authority to secure the expeditious movement of traffic on their network, and to facilitate the same on the networks of other Authorities. This can be perceived as a duty to secure the fast movement of motorised traffic and used as an argument against 20mph schemes. However, this narrow interpretation does not reflect the whole meaning of this requirement, as ‘traffic’ encompasses all modes of transport using roads, including pedestrians. The duty is essentially about balancing the needs of all road users, and also operates alongside other duties, including those in the area of road safety. This is made clear in the DfT’s Network Management Duty Guidance.

4) Can and will the police enforce 20mph speed limits?

The 20mph speed limit is made using statutory powers which the Police can and do enforce. Croydon police have confirmed that they will enforce 20mph speed limits in the same way they enforce 30mph or any other speed limit.

The speed limit in North Croydon came into force in September 2016. The Police have started enforcement of the lower speed limit as is evident in this tweet from the local policing team from Upper Norwood in November 2016.

See original at

5) Will the introduction of 20mph zones have any effect on the speed at which emergency vehicles can travel?

The lower speed limit does not impact emergency services when attending an emergency call. Drivers of other vehicles will have to give way/make way to emergency vehicles as usual.

6) Why was the policy imposed in north Croydon when only 2% of the population felt it important enough to vote on?

The decision to implement the scheme was taken following a ‘Statutory Consultation’ process through which all objections were considered prior to a decision being taken. Everyone living or working in the area was entitled to have a say in that process; that so few people objected can be seen to indicate the broad level of satisfaction that existed with the council’s decision.

7) What level of objection would have an effect on the proposed scheme?

The decision whether or not to proceed with the proposal will be made following a full consideration of all the objections received, as well as any responses submitted in support of the proposals.

Road safety officers base their advice on how the proposal may benefit/disbenefit the public by looking at available studies/research carried out by other Government departments, practical experience of other local authorities and the nature of the objections received. Bearing this in mind, officers often try and put forward an elaborate analysis which covers these issues so that decision makers can have as much information as reasonably possible when making decisions.

What is important is that although the question assumes that there is a level of predetermination of the scheme going ahead no matter what, officers have an open mind and will consider the nature of objections before providing an officer report.

8) Why was Smitham Downs Road included – it is a B road and is wide, not very busy, has no schools and not dangerous in my opinion?

The starting point in the determination of which roads to include in the 20mph speed limit has always been whether the road is part of the A and B road network. However, it has always been the intention to consider our main road network carefully and amend the scheme to include or exclude roads based on local knowledge of their traffic carrying function.

Smitham Downs Road may be the B2030 historically, but is not considered to be a major traffic through route and as such it is proposed to be included in the 20mph speed limit. Similarly, Pampisford Road, Canterbury Road, Shirley Church Road, Mitchley Hill and Purley Downs Road are local distributor in nature, include schools or are otherwise considered inappropriate for high-speed traffic, and have therefore been included in the 20mph speed limit.

Conversely, roads like Croham Valley Road, Beddington Farm Road, Ampere Way, Addington Hills Road, and Lodge Lane are clearly major traffic routes and have been excluded from the 20mph speed limit. This is not to say that the scheme is fixed, and if individuals wish to object to the inclusion or exclusion of any road within the 20mph proposals they can voice this opinion through the public notice/objections process and changes may then be considered if appropriate.

9) If the scheme includes Pampisford Road, this will drive all the traffic onto the Brighton Road, which doesn’t seem sensible.

See answer to question 8 above.

Traffic movements can be complex in nature and so to simply assume that all of the current traffic flows on Pampisford traffic will shift to Brighton Road is not necessarily true. Why would not some of it remain on Pampisford Road? Or why would not some of it not shift to Purley Way? If Brighton Road or Purley Way are congested why would drivers not continue to use Pampisford Road where a 20mph speed limit has the potential to offer a smoother more consistent speed throughout its length?

A study carried out by The Centre for Transport Studies at Imperial College London found that, across several routes in central London, a greater range of speeds occurred on 30 mph segments compared to 20mph segments. A large proportion of time was simply spent accelerating and decelerating on 30 mph segments suggesting that 20 mph routes may facilitate smooth driving.

10) Shouldn’t Chaldon Way/Mead Way stay at 30 as again they are both wide, with little traffic and very few parked cars, and are bus routes.

See answer to question 8.

11) How will objections be counted (e.g. per number of signatories, per number of objections listed, per individual objections logged as separate objections) and will they be weighted in any way ( e.g objection from Residents Association, household, individual?)

Officers will endeavour to report objections, both qualitatively and quantitatively.

The focus will be more on the content of objections so as to ensure that objections are considered appropriately and not on the number of times that any one person writes in. To date it has been observed that some individuals have written in numerous times and presented one issue at a time in each of their correspondence.

It is the issues which will be quantified and not the number of times the individual has written in.


Download a copy, here: Premeeting Q&A on 20mph consultation

Updates and notices of meeting – 6 February 2017

Thank you!
Thanks to those who attended our meeting and to all who booked a place which meant the meeting started on schedule.

Particular thanks to Cllr Sara Bashford and Cllr Stuart King who spoke at the meeting and answered questions. Thanks also to Cllr Margaret Bird who attended and spoke with residents before and after the meeting.

We really appreciated the help of Valerie Willis-Skinner who helped set up, clear away and dealt with registration on the night.



Here are the updates and notices of meeting. The meeting notes will follow when all attending have had the opportunity to view and comment.


20mph consultation 
Thanks to Cllr Maggie Mansell and to Cllr Stuart King for a prompt response to the query regarding the opening date of the consultation which was raised in the January meeting.  Although officially opening on 18 January 2017 any comments submitted prior to this date will be considered as part of the consultation.

To find out more20mph about the consultation and how to respond, click here. You can also download the Council’s FAQs on this link.

Information offering arguments for and arguments against 20mph has also been provided.


SNARL and the cat killer
As agreed at the January meeting, details of South Norwood Animal Rescue anscreen-shot-2017-01-03-at-14-32-34d Liberty (SNARL)‘s work and copies of the flyers to download have been added to the CCC website.  All were asked to keep spreading the word and to follow the advice given to keep pets safe. See details here. Flyers were also available at the meeting to take away.







screen-shot-2017-02-02-at-04-05-32LGBT History Month is being celebrated in Croydon this month. The programme includes talks, screening at the David Lean Cinema, singing and social events. Copies of the leaflet were available at the meeting and the details can be viewed here.









Croydonites, an eclectic mix of theatre, is back for a second year in Croydon at various venues. There is also an early bird discount for bookings made by 24 February.

Copies of the programme were available at the meeting and details can be viewed here.




Croydon Debate Club
The February meeting will be held at the Croydon Conference Centre in Surrey Street on 22 February. This session will be with the new Borough Commander, Chief Superintendent Jeff Boothe, to discuss policing.

The following event will be held on the revised date of March 29 March. This meeting will focus on air quality and Cllr Stuart King has agreed to speak at this.



Future meeting dates and themes
Tuesday 14 March is booked for the next meeting, either for a meeting on crowdfunding in association with the Council, if there is sufficient demand, or it may be a general meeting.

Tuesday April 4 has been pencilled in for a meeting with the new borough commander, Chief Superintendent Jeff Boothe, who has agreed to speak and take questions at one of our meetings. We hope that this will be confirmed next week when the borough commander returns from leave.

Wednesday 10 May has been booked for a meeting to revisit the topic of Rubbish – Refuse, Recycling and Flytipping, where a council officer will provide answers to any questions submitted.  The cabinet member and shadow cabinet member will be invited to speak and to take questions.

All details will be confirmed shortly.

Local policing team newsletters
Anyone can sign up to these newsletters and occasional important updates from their local policing team. Newsletters also contain details of ward panel meetings.  Local policing teams are keen to hear from residents and business owners/workers on their priorities and concerns for the ward. 

CCC post all local policing team ward newsletters on the website, but in order to avoid delay and to ensure that people receive important updates as soon as they are released, do sign up directly with the local policing team (previously called the Safer Neighbourhood team) to get the information as soon as it is released.

Find all newsletters, here.


Croydonites in back!

A polar bear you can get up close and personal to, bedtime stories strictly for adults and an immersive delve into Eden; there’s more than one reason Croydonites “diverse and eclectic” festival is not one to miss.


Croydonites Festival of New Theatre is back from 16th  March – 1st April, bringing the brightest new UK theatre to Croydon. For the full line-up and to book tickets, visit

There’s an early bird offer on tickets too if you book by 24 February!

Keep up to date
Find Croydonites
on Facebook at
on Twitter at @Croydonites
and on Instagram at CroydonitesFestival

Croydon Policing Newsletter – Broad Green – February 2017

Here’s the latest newsletter from the local policing team for Broad Green.

You can receive this newsletter straight to your inbox every month.  Just email Broad Green SNT to be added to their circulation list.

Produced by:

Broad Green Safer Neighbourhood Team
Email –
Tel – 020 8721 2712

Follow on Twitter
Now at @MPSCroydonTown @MPSBroadGreen account no longer exists.

screen-shot-2017-02-03-at-21-05-51 screen-shot-2017-02-03-at-21-06-29


Help Purley Food Hub in February 2017

PFH logoPurley Food Hub is a registered charity, keen to receive donations to support their work.

Purley Food Hub serves people in need in Croydon, not just the immediate Purley area.

Purley Food Hub appreciates the generous food donations received from community groups, churches and schools and individuals to support their work.

Purley Food Hub reports,

“January 2017 has been very busy for the Food Hub with more than 2,000 meals provided this month alone for clients and their families going through tough times – taking us past 75,000 meals overall since we started in January 2013.”

That’s an impressive achievement!

Purley Food Hub is particularly seeking the following items this month:



 NB:  At this time they have ENOUGH soup, baked beans & pasta, thank you!

They also welcome financial donations to support their work. Financial donations are used to buy special items needed, including formula milk, nappies and sanitary items as well as pre-paid bus fares for clients to make the trip home with heavy bags of tinned food.

Download a copy to share or to use when shopping, here:  food-list-january-2017

Donations can be left at:

Cafe Blue, 945 Brighton Road, Purley CR8

Monday to Saturday, 9am to 5.30pm

Get Fired! (pottery shop), 914 Brighton Road, Purley CR8 2LN
Monday to Saturday, 10am to 6pm (to 9pm Thursday)

Purley United Reformed Church, 906 Brighton Road, Purley CR8 2LN
Monday to Saturday, 9am to 2pm

Christ Church, between 861-863 Brighton Road, Purley CR8 2BN
Monday to Friday, 9am-12noon (term time only)
For all information see
Find them on Twitter: @PurleyFoodHub
And PurleyFoodHub on Facebook.