Have you been caught out? Haling Road, CR2 – obscured sign leading to fines

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A Croydon resident, has been caught out by an obscured sign and is warning others of the issue.

The following was said by the judge in a recent successful appeal:

“This is the legal test the motorist will have to convince the court of i.e. the signs couldn’t be seen until it was too late especially on a one-way street and so the offence didn’t happen because the motorist could not see the sign either;

By virtue of the placement of the signs, and the lack of advance warning of the same, motorists are obliged to commit to effecting a turn into the restricted road before the ability to digest the information on the sign becomes available. At such juncture a motorist is unable to re-route.

Whilst it is incumbent upon a motorist to consult signage and comply with restrictions, it is incumbent upon an enforcement authority to ensure the signage implementing the terms of a Traffic Management Order is adequate to communicate the nature and extent of the restriction to motorists. I do not find that to be the case in this instance.

Evidentially therefore I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred, accordingly I allow this Appeal.”

Download a copy of the adjudication here. Adjudication 070221

 

 

 

 

 

48 thoughts on “Have you been caught out? Haling Road, CR2 – obscured sign leading to fines”

  1. Hi,
    I found this post most interesting as I have fallen foul of the restrictions in Haling Road, I received a PCN for this offence dated last December. After some research I appealed regarding the poor signage but this was rejected and I felt that I didn’t want to risk paying the full amount of the fine if a further appeal was made.
    I find it very unfair that if you make a second appeal either in writing or in person then it renders your right to a discount period void as it would take more than the grace period to be heard.
    I have written to my MP Sarah Jones regarding this and am yet to receive a reply.
    I posted my rejection notice on Nextdoor Selsdon community site and received more than a hundred comments, I also saw a post on a facebook page I follow, Croydon Disconnected with the same thread and there were a considerable amount of comments on there too.
    Regards,
    Rob Carter

    Liked by 1 person

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    • I’ve just driven down Haling road earlier today, about 1400 hrs and I never noticed the signage . I went to drive down the road a second time about 45 minutes later when I saw a chap advising me of the signage and hence advised me not to drive down the road. The signage does not give enough warning as it is right at the end of the street corner and drivers need to concentrate on turning that corner rather than looking upwards 8 foot to read the signage. The wording on the sign seems correct but the fact is that it does not give enough warning not to enter.

      I will pay the fine and them appeal retrospectively otherwise I’ll have to pay more if the appeal fails

      Resident in Croydon for 32 years that has used this road hundreds of times.

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  2. Thank you for your post, I found that very interesting. I had a PCN through a couple of weeks ago and need to appeal by the end of today. I did not see any signage as I turned right into the road but I live over an hour away and so not easy to go back to take a look. I have done some research and it seems that many people have fallen into the same trap. I would be interested to know what the successful appeal contained.
    Kind regards,
    Jen

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    • Hi Jen, A lot of people are being caught out by this. There are details of the grounds in the adjudication letter at the bottom of the post. We have a meeting on ‘Our Roads’ which will cover this topic and others on 24 May. Currently the top post on our website!

      Do let us know how you get on with your appeal.

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  3. I have received a penalty charge notice on using Haling Road as well. I did not see any sign to say that I could not enter this road. I am going to appeal towards this fine as I do not think there is a proper warning given or a sign I could see before entering the road.

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  4. I have just received a fine…could not see a sign?..literally went to get petrol by the garage on the corner where this road is and didn’t know this was pedestrians only.. since when? No warning signs??.Croydon are broke and clawing money back however they see fit..maybe a warning letter to say this is pedestrian only now to make you aware rather than dishing fines out in which you have no hope of appealing your case…

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  5. I have in the past used driven this route home from work, when the Volvo garage was still there. On 27.05 and 28.05 I turned right into Haling Road off Brighton, as I would have done every other time and I did not see any signs indicating this was a “Pedestrian zone”, other wise I would not have turned right. – I think there should be a sign on Brighton road – visible enough o be seen before turning right. I will appeal to both my fines.

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  6. Another comment, received via email:

    I have been fine twice for entering this restriction from the south where there is no signage and the sign at the beginning of the restriction is a white sign erected in front of a white wall.
    I believe the layout is completely unfair giving drivers no chance of observing the restriction before entering Haling road.
    I have appealed both penalties but as yet have heard nothing.
    I can’t believe it has been implemented as a money-making scam but it look very much as if it has!

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  7. I have lived in this area for the past 50 years and have always used Haling Road so when I received my first Penalty Charge for 5th May I paid up immediately as £130 is a lot of money for me. The Notice just said Haling Road, By Haling Road, I had not seen any warning signs as it is busy turning off the Brighton Road and am concentrating on traffic, not looking for signs that cannot be seen. I have received a second Penalty Charge today for 7th June and am not amused. Perhaps the Council should be making more of an effort to stop people getting caught instead of taking money from local residents who are already bailing them out due to the unacceptable debt that they are in. I will now have to change my route as having to check what time of day it is as to whether I can use the “pedestrianised” area or not is not acceptable.
    I would like to know how much money Croydon Council have “earnt” from this and how much of that money is going towards repairing the roads.

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  8. I’ve used Haling Road for at least 20 years and have just had a PCN dated 1st July. That was the first time I used the road during the afternoon since this money grabbing scheme started – every other time has been weekends or evenings. There was no notification of any change in advance and I’m too busy watching the road for children running out from behind cars at school time to start looking for new road signs hidden behind the one way street pole. I’ve downloaded the successful appeal and will submit an appeal myself backed up with a dashcam video to show how bad the signage is as I haven’t noticed it since last September. This is a deliberate attempt by a busted Council to extract money from motorists by stealth.

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  9. Good morning. I have just won an appeal against a ticket on a similar basis to that of their case referenced in the article. The adjudicator found the signage was not clear to drivers until you pull into the road and allowed the appeal.

    I am happy to share the decision and material used to help others with their appeal.

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  10. I was shocked to get a PCN this morning (October 27) relating to an offence committed on October 15. I had no idea of the “School Roads” plan, and certainly didn’t see any notice.

    I have just been back to Haling Road, approaching from each side, and I have to say the notices are now very clear. There’s even a “No left turn other than …” on the side I was coming from on the day. The question is, when were these latest notices put up? – if I could show they were not there on October 15, I’d have grounds for appeal. Can anyone help?

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  11. Hi guys
    I am starting a campaign to get these signs looked into. I am meeting the Croydon advertiser this Thursday at 3pm. I will be there at 2pm to stop cars entering the road and explaining to people to spread the word. Anyone who wants to attend are more than welcome.

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  12. I was disappointed to receive a PCN for turning up Haling Road – a route I have been using for the best part of 20 years, then even more mortified to receive a second PCN for a similar offense 2 days later. I spotted no signs until I visited Google maps after receiving the first PCN. To be caught once is unfortunate, twice is unlikely and could be looked as entrapment.

    I have appealed both tickets, but from previous general dealings with Croydon Council, am not hopeful.

    This is obviously an abuse of power by a bankrupt and questionably corrupt council. PCN’s should not be budgeted to pay for ‘improvements’. Unfortunately, it will be nigh on impossible to get a court to agree that Croydon Council use these cameras solely for revenue creation.

    Could councils across the country be discouraged from these actions using PCN’s as revenue, by making them liable for expenses on a successful appeal?

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    • Yes they are abusing their power. Plus, I believe the tribunal service is working alongside the council to revenue £130. As Croydon council fund the tribunal service. Please let me know your outcome. Plus may I have the adjudicator’s name as I am taking this further.

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      • I have failed at the Croydon Council level, which doesn’t surprise me. I do not have the time or money to take this further so have paid the fines. As part of the evidence supplied by Croydon Council, they have supplied a photo of the entrance of the road taken from the curb opposite. The only way to be in this position in a car would be to crash into the building. No adjudicators name has been supplied other than Steve Iles – Director of Sustainable Communities.

        This is entrapment – There is no defence of entrapment in English law but it is considered to be an abuse of the process of the court for state agents to lure a person into committing illegal acts and then seek to prosecute him for doing so.

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      • They are breaching the Data protection act 2018.
        They are NOT allowed to get your details from DVLA without your consent. This is a pure scam. I’ve now stopped over 600 cars in 4 weeks. Even the police didn’t see the signs. It is entrapment.

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  13. My appeal has been rejected, so I am left with a choice – pay the £65, or risk going to adjudication and being clobbered for the full £130 if I fail (which I probably would). A blatant ploy by a cash-strapped council to grab money by any means.

    On Thursday this week I joined Ricky (see above), and in two hours we deterred 50 motorists from entering the road “illegally.” None had any idea – all were horrified. The lady from the Croydon Advertiser duly came, and took copious notes and photos – hopefully this will alert more people.

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    • Don’t pay them. I spoke to a guy today. He won his appeal in July. Just don’t pay them. I wouldn’t but it’s your choice my friend. I’m at haling road everyday now if you want to come along and chat.

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    • What a great idea – you also potentially stopped 50 motorists losing £3,250! That’s very commendable and brings home just what a money spinning scam this is for Croydon Council. If I have time I’m going to plan my trips over that way during the week to arrive over there just before the prohibition starts and do the same thing. I won’t get my £65 back but I’ll certainly stop Croydon Council from earning a few thousand pounds out of this scam and save other motorists the pain I had. Croydon Council will regret scamming me out of £65 and this is all perfectly legal. What a great service you’ve done us, thanks.

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      • Thank you Clive, that means a lot. I’ve saved motorists £9,000 in three afternoons. I will continue my campaign until ALL, of these camera roads have correct signage, or a barrier system. Be nice to see you.

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  15. I’ve just received a PCN for this road dated 19th January 2022, while driving around trying to find a parking space for a dentist appointment in the area. I genuinely did not see the sign and knew nothing about this scheme. I’m incensed by Croydon Council’s schemes to constantly change roads to catch innocent motorists out. I’ve known this area of South Croydon for over 20 years, having worked in Bartlett Street for a while, so I knew where all the parking restrictions etc were. Croydon Council make me sick! There should be a clear no right turn painted on the road with the times this pedestrian zone, is in place, it’s outrageous!!

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    • I have just finished settling a final fine which has been left to accrue to £1000.00 to Newlyn bailiff .the reason for this ridiculously high amount was because I hadn’t updated log book with new address . I have since updated log book . just today I have received another for £279 .contravention date apparently was 15/06/2021 and just today for the first time receiving a Notice of enforcement this is ridiculous and I wonder how much Croydon council will continue to make off innocent Individuals. I have logged a complaint via email . it easy for Croydon Council to track motorist down when they have waited for a bill to get that high to approx £1000.but not before it gets that huge . I was forced to pay £500 using my credit card whilst on benefits with little to survive on and then monthly payments of £69. this must STOP.

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      • In my ongoing unilateral campaign to make the Council pay dearly for their underhand deceitful way of extracting a fine from me, in the latest communication they informed me of the following: The original Experimental Traffic Order (ETO) expired on 28th Feb (when they placed those covers on the signs). They then issued a new ETO on 25th April and the covers were removed. So, anyone who received a fine dated 1st March – 24th April should 100% appeal it as there was no ETO in place.
        The Council are trying to make up their budget deficit by fining transgressors on Haling Road and are well on their way to succeeding.
        This is a very interesting article on the LTNs – it’s not what Haling Road has but proof that the Council are making up their budget deficit at the expense of motorists – over £4m in fines on one road alone! https://insidecroydon.com/2022/05/27/mayor-perrys-20million-reasons-for-breaking-election-promise/
        I’m going to continue to waste the Councils time and money and estimate their costs to date for fining me are in excess of £200 in having to respond to my continuous barrage of questions. I’ve questioned them on various issues such as their Brick by Brick/Fairfield Halls debacle and submitted several FoI requests including their performance on planning appeals on major schemes.

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  16. I would strongly urge anyone who received a PCN for this road to appeal to the Tribunal as the council will not accept your appeal and still try to enforce the fine.

    You have a very strong chance of success, particularly given our own appeal decision in which the Judge confirmed the signage is flawed. If you use the same basis of appeal and provide copies if this and the other successful appeal, there is no reason a different decision would be reached.

    I have provided copies of the information we submitted and decision to CCC so hopefully they will publish this for your use.

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      • You will need to apply to the courts to have the judgment they are enforcing ‘set aside’ which would then stop them from being able to pursue action. You would then need to get the judgment quashed if successful the ticket will be reissued by Croydon Council and you can then appeal it with them and the tribunal if they do not accept your appeal.

        I suggest calling the courts first, if you are not confident to make the application yourself, seek specialist legal advice.

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  17. My son has just sent me the article as I was fined last year for driving along Haling Road at 2.35pm. Having lived in South Croydon for 25 years I have driven down that road regularly. The signage was plainly very poor because I didn’t notice it and reluctantly paid the £65.
    Having worked for Croydon Council for over 20 years I am annoyed by the fine but realise that as the Council is bankrupt they have to make money somehow!!!

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    • I thought I briefly saw something covering them last Friday evening but it was just as difficult to see exactly what was going on as it is to see the signs in daylight when you enter the road as I was past them and watching up the road for pedestrians and traffic and it would have been too dangerous to look back. I’m going to apply for a refund as this must surely be an admission by the Council that they got it wrong?

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  19. Croydon Council is still refusing to accept liability and any wrongdoing on this matter and rejecting appeals made so I would recommend anyone in this position appeal to the Tribunal for a more sensible assessment. The council makes it as difficult as possible to appeal in the hope you payout so do not be deterred. I have just submitted my second tribunal appeal for a second ticket received despite already winning an appeal at the tribunal for exactly the same issue. A complete waste of government and council resource is it any wonder they are bankrupt!

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  20. can you please advise on how to appeal when you’ve ben handed over to Enforcement agents and the fine has even skyrocketed . I am thinking on going to the Citizens advise Bureau for advice . this is a money making scam and should not be allowed to carry on.

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  21. On 20/05/22 14.30.27. I used Halling Road as part of my journey to SE3. I have used this road on/off since about 1970 .(I am now a pensioner of 84years) and turned off the busy Brighton road into Haling Road.I saw no restrictions or road signs or road marking of any sort that I was about to enter a’ pedestraian zone’. After reading all the previous correspondance I do not understand if this restriction is enforcable and do not want the stress (at 84 years) should I persue an appeal. The £65 PCN arrived 01/06/2022.

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  22. I am so reassured that others didn’t see or know this sign is in place I was picking my dog up from the local parlour which is already a nightmare to find a bay, but I still do as It’s a lovely small local business, today I got the notice 2weeks after, I am devastated, this is so much money and doesn’t solve the fact that too many cars are in the roads due to the school And lack of parking , I also wondered why people had parked so badly just before this road, now I know they didn’t want to go down this road!! so the outcome will be me out of pocket and most likely finding a different groomer as I really don’t need this stress The only gain is Croydon again!

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  23. Its a blooming outrage. clearly a money making scheme. I am 46, have lived in croydon and driven down this street all m driving life and get charged 65£ after filling the car which already is stupidly expensive due to taxation. Seriously unimpressed. cant be bothered to do anything about it which i guess is what they are hoping for.

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  24. I got caught last year after using the road for 20 years but then not seeing the obscured signs. I approach from the Purley end so can’t comment on the other approach but to be fair Croydon have now erected a massive “No Right Turn” sign with all the prohibited times clearly stated which stopped me in my tracks the first time I saw it and it gives you plenty of time to slow/stop safely and see to what it refers. TBH if you miss that you possibly need to go to Spec Savers.
    When Croydon refused my appeal they stated the existing signage was “Compliant” but the RTA requires more than that from Councils so for them now to erect this monster of a sign must mean they had an internal debate about the signage being inadequate. I’ve asked via a FOI request to see the internal correspondence around the debate regarding the implementation of this new sign so I can see what their internal process was as I suspect they realised they had cocked up. When I get it I’ll circulate it – I am determined to get my £65 back for Croydon’s failure to provide adequate signage in the first place.

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  25. Today I received a hand delivered letter from a bailiff company regarding driving down Haling Road in November 2021. They demanded £514 and I managed to beg and borrow this amount to get rid of them. I had noticed that the signs had been covered up a while ago and naively assumed I was off the hook as I looked online to do some research and read everything on there Not sure what to do now? I want my money back as I was duped by this ridiculous council like so many other unfortunate people

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